. last night, we covered the details of the president's opening gambit in the fiscal cliff talk. he wants a $1.6 trillion tax increase, 50 billion and stimulus spending. and the white house has the ability to raise the debt ceiling without congressional approval. a very big deal for folks there. today, the president is out there, trying to drum up support among the public. not in washington or with congress or the senate. here is what he had to say. >> it is not acceptable to me, and i do not think it is acceptable to you for a handful of republicans in congress will middle-class tax cuts hostage simply because they don't want tax rates on upper income folks go up. gerri: it sounds like the same old, same old. the president has been making the same comments again. is this any way to sell a plan? >> there really is not. the president is not being serious about this. the fact that the president is out there campaigning on this rather than negotiating, it means that those that are negotiating, such as secretary geithner, they probably don't feel bound by what the president is saying. this is the first gammons and certainly not a serious offer. >> mitch mcconnell laughed out loud on camera at the plant. what do you make of that? >> he had every reason to. let's look

status. that's what the president wants to avoid with this fiscal cliff conversation. that's why a deal is going to be hammered out probably before the end of the year. the president does have a little political head wind. >> this gives, i think, labor a real opportunity to show the country the graph that we showed, the separation between corporate profits are right there at a record level and wages are going down. the republicans have been so strong to even want to take away workers voices in the workplace. but in these fiscal cliff negotiations, do you really think that the republicans see this chart and they need that economy to slow down a little bit if they are going to win th this? >> maybe so. the income inequality in this country has been a problem but it has been for decades. it's been exacerbated by policies passed more recently. so when you go into negotiations, you ask, is it politically correct to be out there arguing that the 2% need to have their tax cuts protected? that's the problem that republicans face. labor does have a bit of an upper hand on this one. but then again,

. we're going to hear from somebody who says a deal on the fiscal cliff could have already been reached if only lawmakers took a page out of wall street's deal making strategy of keeping things behind closed doors. where have we heard that before? >>> plus, secretary tim geithner with us exclusively. will the white house let our economy go over the fiscal cliff if a deal on higher tax rates for the wealthy is not reached? we're checking it out. back in a moment. [ male announcer ] research suggests cell health plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+. it's easy to follow the progress you're making toward all your financial goals. a quick glance, and you can see if you're on track. when the conversation turns to knowing where you stand, turn to us. wells fargo advisors. >>> welcome back. this very public negotiation on the fiscal cliff still does not seem to be closing in on a deal. the white house out in campaign style events regularly, making multiple media appearances, kle including timothy g

conversation by asking you, what are the chances that we will get a fiscal cliff deal by the end of this year? wince think they're reasonably good. all the building blocks are in place. at this point really people just have to choose from the options that are available. and it's hugely consequence for the country if we fail. so i remain opposite sdns-- optimisc. >> we heard dramatic sound bites when do we start rung out of time and risk going over the cliff? how much time dow need to get an agreement? >> well, realistically, if an agreement were reached in the next several weeks there would be time to get all of the language put together to have it implemented. so there is still significant time to get this agreement reached. >> as you know house speaker boehner was calling on democrats today to propose specific spending cuts to entitlement programs. we foe that the white house is proposing around $300 billion in cuts to medicare is that all the program can take or are republicans right in saying there is more room to cut entitlement spending? >> well, look financial they think it should

will be critical, because they need republican support to get any final fiscal cliff deal through the senate, and also through the house, they say they hope that he's coming with concrete spending cut ideas that are acceptable to the administration. one of the meetings today will be with senate republican leader mitch mcconnell who a short time ago sounded pretty fired up. >> the only reason democrats are insisting on raising rates is because raising rates on the so-called rich is the holy grail of liberalism. their aim is not job he tkraoe asian, they are interested in wealth destruction. not job creation but wealth destruction. >> reporter: a short time ago vice president biden was out and about and he told reporters that he is optimistic about the overall fiscal cliff talks, martha. martha: we'll see. the way they speak publicly there doesn't seem to be a lot of budging on either side. we know there were pretty high profile white house meetings, but those conversations, not happening publicly right now, but are they going on behind closed doors do we think? >> reporter: we know pre

increases from the fiscal cliff. look on your screen. milk prices. could they double if we fail to reach a deal? we're live on a farm we details on that possibility >> i'm sandra smith with your fox business brief. stocks spent the day drifting between gains and losses as investors focused their attention on washington and the fiscal cliff negotiations. amr looking for more time to submit a bankruptcy restructuring plan. the airline along with its creditors has filed a request in a manhattan bankruptcy court to extend its exclusive right deadline to march 11th. earlier this year amr said it would prefer to exit as a stand-alone company but is discussing merger options. >>> long island power authority chairman howard steinberg has reportedly resigned from his post effective immediately. that is according to news day. steinberg's resignation is a latest in string of departures following the criticism of the utility's company performance in the wake of superstorm sandy. that is the latest from the fox business network, giving you the power to prosper. having you ship my gifts couldn't be easier. well, ha

today the start of a santa claus rally despite the fears over the fiscal cliff? rick, let me kick this off with you. what kind of expectations are out there on this fiscal cliff story? we seem to feel that there's a deal in the air. why else do we see such optimism today? rick? >> oh, for me? i'm sorry. i'll tell you what, maria, i'm not sure what's going on in washington. i'm not sure who those republicans are. i'm not so sure on whether the fiscal conservatives in the party know something about some big reforms on medicare and medica medicare, social security is, any of the retirement or tax issues, but i'll tell you this. i think that all these stories aren't necessarily going lead us to the truth. i personally have a very size way i'm approaching this. the president is supposed to leave for a 21-day vacation in hawaii on december 17th. where he is on december 18th will tell me, and i think the markets will pay attention. i find it hard to believe, and i agree with bill and many, who are very not amused by the house taking their long weekend. i'm sure that the president would have no intentions of leaving until these issues are resolved. i think the market is being kind, but i think it's a timing issu

today. let's go "outfront." we have breaking news. new details on the fiscal cliff deal that timothy geithner put on the table today during his meeting with congressional leaders on the hill. these details just coming in. jessica yellin has that and what have you learned about what geithner took you know, listed out with the numbers and put on the table? >> hey, erin, here are some of the details i'm getting from senior officials on both sides. the headline is that he put out a number of $1.6 trillion in new taxes. that was at according to republican officials, a surprise. they expected a much smaller number and that has some republicans crying foul. he proposes extending unemployment insurance. continuing the dock fix. that's approving additional spending on medicare to pay doctors. the amt patch protecting middle income americans. $50 billion in stimulus next year and in return, the administration would offer $400 billion in additional medicare and other entitlement savings next year to be spelled out as they negotiate. there would also be an agreed mechanism for allowing a vote on

the presidents. joining me now, theman some democrats blame for the fiscal cliff impasse, grover norquist, president of americans for tax reform. and the many ands a finger to about fixing it, michael reagan, founder of the reagan group. i wantto start with the republicans plan that they put on the table. they have been accused of doing nothing and all. they come up with their own plan which inclus 800 billion in revenue from closing loopholes and eliminating deductions and then 1 billion in spendin cuts. it is being rejected from the get go by democrats. grover, what do you say? >> i think the republicans had a very good pl called lorraine budg. they alloted for it in the house. itsaves $6 trillion over the same decade, and they did not raise taxes and all. i really think of the president is not iterested in compromising, and not sure it is wise with the republicans to keep moving in his direction. i suppos it ge you five minutes on the nightly news to say you are being reasonable, but the president keeps saying he jst wants massive tax increase no spendin cus. he wants to incre

reform later and ignore the debt. that's the fiscal cliff deal of the day and the market likes it and the numbers are 5, 16, 22, 23, 29, and the powerball is 6. you lost. the government won. "varney & company" is about to begin. [ male announcer ] this is steve. he loves risk. but whether he's climbing everest, scuba diving the great barrier reef with sharks, or jumping into the marke he goes with people he trusts, . . >> . stuart: it's a modern day tea party. it's a revolt led by corporations. the wall street journal reports 173 companies announced they'll pay special dividends for shareholders before the end of the year because a big tax increase on dividends could be coming next year and many companies moving up regular dividends to save their taxpayers, to save taxpayers a lot of money. start with disney. it's raising its dividend and paying it out on december 28th. that's 1.3 billion dollars paid out in total, paid out under the current tax rate. and las vegas sands paying a special dividend, that's a one on shot. 2 and 1/4 billion total. half of that will go to sheldon adelson. cost

seem to be digging in on a fiscal cliff deal and so right now it's a stalemate. >> for right now i would say we're nowhere. period. we're nowhere. >> what are the chance we'll go over the live? >> there's clearly chance. >> tuning we'll get a deal by the end. year. >> do i. >> i think we'll go over the cliff. >> republicans are angry the president presented them with an offer they don't think is serious. but the president's new negotiating strategy is clear, don't give in. don't start with concessions. even as some republicans say they don't think they need to put out any kind of formal proposal. let me bring in "the washington post" columnist and our politics reporter. good morning. so the headline in the "new york times" is pushing the gop to negotiate, obama ends giving in. and peter baker writes that president obama has emerged kind of a different style of negotiator in the past week or two, sticking to the liberal line, frustrating the republicans clearly. this is a strategy his base might like but i'm wondering will it make him a better deal maker? >> it just may mean that re

pretty fascinating. you have to hear what he ays about the fiscal cliff. closing bell ringing in 39 minutes. can washington get its act together? nebraska, they are calling it, though farming cliff. all these subsidies for their farming. how that state is dealing with all the uncertainties. a fox business exclusive. we will wrap up our governors on the edge series. only on fox business. ♪ liz: are you sick of the fiscal cliff, i know. it is a huge topic of conversation. how about this twist on it. though farming cliff. they want lawmakers to include a farming subsidy and deal discussions. how will this impact the state that has 93% of its land area used by farms and ranches. that is nebraska. we have dave heineman in a fox business exclusive. what a headache for you. we have been talking to governors all week long. everyone has their own story. yours, in particular, is extremely worrisome. explain what would happen if we go over the fiscal cliff. >> well, first of all, let me say good afternoon. it is always great to be with you. i am concerned not only about the farming cliff, but the overall fiscal cliff. we need america to come together. we need to create more jobs in america like we have done here in nebraska, as you know. we have 3.8% unempl

unlocked. nyse euronext. unlocking the world's potential. >>> no fiscal cliff deal without raising taxes on the rich. that's what treasury secretary timothy geithner told steve lease son. steve joins us from the white house with more on this. >> melissa, thanks very much. interesting comments from the treasury secretary who laid out the negotiating position of the administration in ways that it hadn't before, at least not explicitly as they had. what i want to play here is the sound from the interview and i'm going to put my question in there too just so you understand exactly what the treasury secretary was responding to when it comes to the position of the administration on walking away or letting the country go over the fiscal cliff without tax hikes for the wealthy. here it is. >> i want to understand the administration's position when it comes to raising taxes on the wealthy and those making more than $250,000. if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve t

fiscal cliff and sequestration to get kick in? genuine in negotiating and get a deal. >> andrea: we can do what we like. the catch phrase. kick the can down the road. coming up, trillion-dollar ticking time bomb in addition to one we're talking about that could undermine the american economy. what is it? don't tell you. we'll tell you -- don't move. we'll tell you. that is next on "the five." ♪ ♪ or that printing in color had to cost a fortune. nobody said an all-in-one had to be bulky. or that you had to print from your desk. at least, nobody said it to us. introducing the business smart inkjet all-in-one series from brother. easy to use. it's the ultimate combination of speed, small size, and low-cost printing. >> eric: future of america. watch. >> who is your favorite founding father? >> abraham lincoln. >> he's not a founding father. first president. >> i want to get this down on a tape recorder because nobody will believe me. >> george washington. >> what is a founding father? >> hi. i'm earth. have we met? >> what is ben franklin famous for? >> 100th president. >> eric: genius

blame the president. >> if you cannot get over you go over the fiscal cliff and taxes go up for everyone. >> if there is in deal do you blame the republicans for ruining christmas? >>governor huckabee: the grinch that stole christmas they are called republicans. the media will spend this as the republicans will not come to the table but the republicans came to the table. they brought out $800 billion of taxes. what did they get in nothing. they got balloon juice because the democrats said here is the deal. we will thing about some cuts. we are not sure when or how much or where but we will get back to you. you go lady and raise the taxes. people if the republican party can tut go for that although they will get blamed for the disaster and the train wreck this is coming. >>neil: i tell people to look at coverage and say, did you wonder why republicans are obstinate wanting to hike taxes more, but, democrats are not when they don't want to cut spending? i say you go with the republicans on the tax thing it should be more and should be raised or should be this, fine, then apply the same standard to democrats when it

people expect it if we come it to a deal with the fiscal cliff and get economic growth and get people investing, inflation will go up. so that is going to be a problem for american families. like you said, there are places that business can succeed. is it government-infused money to get there, or is it going to be actual, real, american dollars in there? >> susan, that's really the opportunity. first of all, i don't think inflation is a concern for years. in order for inflation to be a concern it it has to get into the wage cycle. we're far from that. the needs are clear. ports, roads, transport rail and plus protection against extreme weather. on the other side demand. the demand for infrastructure investments isle coming from the private sector. this is very new and it's driven by the fact as rates come down the opportunities for investors, pension funds and sovereign wealth funds to find opportunities to give them the yield they want, 5 to 6% are disappearing. infrastructure offers that opportunity. it's a long-term opportunity. it matches their liabilities, what they need to prote

need to avoid the so- called "fiscal cliff." >> you got it nail this down. uncertainly is killing us. >> reporter: top economists came to capitol hill thursday to talk about the impact of tax increases and government spending consults on the middle class. >> creating jobs -- >> reporter: president obama and house speaker john boehner spoke on the phone wednesday but publicly are holding firm on their positions. the white house has made clear the country could go over the cliff if republicans refuse to raise taxes on the top 2% of american earners. >> to do that to 98% of the american people, because of an insistence that the wealthiest americans get a tax cut would be profoundly wrong. >> reporter: republican leaders say they will close loopholes and eliminate tax breaks but bush-era tax cuts must be extended to all americans. >> reporter: the standoff and debt concerns ryan. so much so, that he is the guy if the suit dancing gangnam style with former senator alan simpson. the group the can kicks back is working to get young people involved in fixing the debt crisis. >> we are trying

like spoiled children in the upcoming fiscal cliff negotiations. 67% expect cringe-worthy immaturity. they don't have much faith in the congress, and they're crying out for a balanced approach. the same poll found 67% want a budget deal with a mix of spending cuts and tax increases, not just spending cuts alone. >>> back to that pledge. that pledge never to raise taxes. the rose grover nordqvist -- they aren't in this pledge. >> i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america. >> and a few brave lawmakers are beginning to acknowledge that their constituents may want flexibility. >> i answer to my constituents, not to a pledge. my constituents certainly don't want me to come to washington to raise their taxes, but

tough decisions that have to be made, to make sure that we don't over the fiscal cliff, don't shift e burden downward. we understand that there is a shared sacrifice. we ask for flexibility when it comes to programs thatre funded by the federal government and federal monies. we needlex ability to be able to determine what is in the best interest of our state. how we can best serve the population. gerri: the truth is the states only have so much flex ability because you have to meet your budget. the federal govement doesn't. but i want to show who is in washington. it was scott walker, gary herbert, mark dayton, jack markell. all the leadership of the governors associatio what kind of response did you get? we are not passing anything onto you guys. >> the president was very cordial and respectful to the governors. and we believe that we have a stake in this process, and he felt like we could offer some ideas of ways that we could help with savings and efficiencies and state government and federal government also. but he also said that they would have to meet his goals and ideas. lead

. >> let's turn to the fiscal cliff, i know you don't want to get clinical or partisan, or even talk about this ridiculous phrase "fiscal cliff," just in your dealings with the financial issues for the last 30 or 40 years, what is your view about taxation, generally. doesn't america suffer when taxes are slightly higher in terms of economic prosperity? or is that just a bit of a myth? >> well, i think there are a lot of theories running around out there. and i have the formal education, and finance degree so i studied economics like a lot of us did. i was formally taught, the proper way is that way. that seems to be the direction of the obama administration, the idea to raise taxes. and the government control the reinvestment interest the economy. really, there is not much evidence that that has worked. it didn't work under obama or bush, even an argument it didn't work under fdr, which is where it came from. that probably world war ii bailed us out of the economic slump, probably called the great depression, rather than that. i am a sophisticated guy, i don't have a lot of sophisticated looks on things. i just know that i have 350 employees and if you r

worried. the so-called fiscal cliff was put in law because it was stuff that would be so unacceptable congress would never let it happen, enormous tax increases, grotesque cuts in spending but here we, it is in the law. congress does nothing which congress is good at doing and go over the cliff and some want to see that happen because then the crisis will generate the kind of bipartisan agreement we need but that is irresponsible. >>neil: it is looking more likely. then who picks up the pieces? >>guest: the country suffers. i don't think anyone gains politically. you know that almost everyone here in both parties will tell you if you talk to them privately, this ends with entitlement reform. not cutting programs like medicare but slowing down the growth in the programs because they are the big drivers of the deficit and raising more out of the revenue, out of the tax system. whether you call iterates or reform over whatever you call it, and each those touches the third rail of the parties, we have to get together and say, basically, we have to do something right for the country. if we

captioning services, inc >> eric: start with a fox news alert. new push for the deal for fiscal cliff, not apparent for progress of this moment. the clock is ticking down. end the year for mandatory tax hikes set to kick in. welcome to new hour of "america's news headquarters." i'm eric shawn. >> i'm jamie colby. more talk of the miscall cliff is coming. house speaker john boehner in an exclusive interview with "fox news sunday" saying, "we're nowhere" in fiscal cliff talks with democrats. treasury secretary tim geithner saying and telling chris wallace republicans must accept the tax hikes for the wealthy to reach a deal. a deal is what we are after. peter doocy live in washington with more. peter, tell us first, speaker boehner -- the big problem right now with the white house proposal that was just presented. >> jamie, speaker boehner says he was flabbergasted when the treasury secretary geithner came to capitol hill and told him what the president wants. and this is why. >> the president is asking for $1.6 trillion worth of new revenue in ten years. twice as much as he has been as

a deal on the fiscal cliff, and do you think that at least the promise of spending cuts has to be included in this level deal at this time? >> i don't think there's -- i don't think it's a productive for either side to lay out hard lines in terms of what the size of the spending cuts ought to be. there's clearly -- there are a lot of options on how you could get there. but the second part of your question was? >> my question is, do you think the promise of spending cuts has to be included in the deal that averts the fiscal cliff? >> listen, there's a framework that we presented to the white house two weeks ago. the framework is -- has been agreed to in terms of really a down payment on the end of this year. that would include spending cuts and it would include revenue. setting up a process for entitlement reform next year, and tax reform next year. but this was way out of balance. and not a recognition on the part of the white house about the serious spending problem that we have. [ inaudible question ] going over the fiscal cliff, you called serious business, extending the lower tax rates -- [ inaudible questi

believes in the existence of unicorns somewhere and hopefully maybe in this fiscal cliff deal. grover, the first question i have for you is this, your pledge, the pledge that many republicans have signed on to, opposes any and all efforts to increase marginal income tax rates and opposes any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits unless matched for dollar by further reducing tax rates. closing loopholes and ending deductions would seem to increase the tax burden that americans are paying to the federal government. given that, do you support the proposal put forward by john boehner? >> well, because the proposal is significantly amorphous, you could get those revenues through economic growth and we don't really have things nailed down, i don't want to talk about a hypothetical, but there is a danger that when you put revenues on the table, even revenues through economic growth, if you grew at 4% a year, reagan levels, instead of 2%, french levels or obama levels, you would net $5 trillion in additional revenue to the government, you could pay down all of obama's additio

, it shows us that we are moving towards a balanced way to deal with the fiscal cliff. it would be an incredible lift, i think, to confidence in the markets. >> so with raising revenue also comes along with that what the right would like to see, you know, in terms of raising revenue to the spending cuts and president obama says he is flexible on entitlement reform in the past we have heard he might be open to raising the medicare eligibility age even possibly reducing cost of living increases for social security benefits, where do you stand on this, assuming that republicans let go of tax cuts for the wealthy? >> well, i think we need to do both. i've said we need to raise revenues, we also need to reduce spending. we started this debate after the simpson-bowles commission came in with the recommendations, we've already done $1 trillion in spending cuts on the discretionary side. we need the revenues and additional savings. we understand that. i think the easiest next step is let's pass the bill that's in the house, that gives confidence and a good deal of the revenues we need, doesn'

? >> well, just look at speaker boehner's fiscal cliff proposal. three-page letter with three simple bullet points. that's the entire proposal to deal with the fiscal cliff and starts out with the sentence that's remarkable, tamron. first sentence is because the election is a status quo, both sides have to compromise. they didn't see what happened. they just dismissed it as a status quo election and this is not just speaker boehner we eric cantor and paul ryan, kevin mccarthy. the entire house republican leadership signed on to the so-called fiscal cliff proposal letter. they're not serious about negotiating. i don't know the right wing and the tea party of who the republican party is nowadays but it's impossible to have a deal with one side refuses to compromise even after losing. they will not accept their own defeat. >> right. >> and that is the problem. >> a.b. let's play what congressman walter jones had to say on this boehner purge. i have the full screen of what he had to say when several members were removed as identified not being team players. he says, i was surprised but i won't sacrifice my integrity for anyone or any party.

whole issue here. >> on the fiscal cliff front, no new deals or concessions made public, but "the new york times" reports the dynamic has changed. at the request of speaker boehner, senate leaders and nancy pelosi have been dismissed from the negotiating table. leaving just the speaker and the president to hammer this one out. today vice president biden is hosting middle-class families at the white house, continuing to pressure congress to strike a deal on tax rates below 250,000. yesterday, the president struck a hopeful note with a middle-income family in virginia, while maintaining a hardline on negotiations. >> the message that i think we all want to send to members of congress is, this is a sovble problem. i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for rate at the top 2% but i remain optimistic we can get something done for that is good for families like this one and that is good for the american economy. >> but the clock is ticking. with just two full weeks before christmas to go. joining me now from washington, the man with all the answer

out of the fiscal cliff deal this morning. this is what house speaker john boehner said about the state of the negotiations. take a listen. >> i think they're -- they won the election, they must have forgotten the republicans continue to hold the majority in the house. but you know, the president's idea of a negotiation is -- roll over and do what i ask. we need to find common ground and we need to find it quickly. >> governor, are they going to be able to find that common ground quickly? >> yeah, i think they are. you know i have to laugh. in the first term, the president was criticized by his base for giving in too quickly or too easily. this is a negotiation. and in the negotiation, you don't put on the table initially where you want to wind up. you put out what's your bargaining position and both sides have to understand that. but what i do think is important, is both sides, and not just the president, but our democrats in the congress as well. have to understand both sides have to understand what the other side needs to do. we're asking the republicans to raise rates. it's be

gop if we go over the fiscal cliff. if that's the case, if he won't deal unless the republicans agree to raise the top rates or revenues, then boehner needs to understand this reality and not under any circumstances surrender or appear weak. now what that means specifically is boehner cannot allow himself to begin to negotiate with himself anda republicans because all that will do is vindicate and reward obama's inflexibility and cause a fierce fight within the gop and conservative. i get the feeling with each and every day as republicans move closer and closer to the obama position, that they are too afraid to go over the clip. they are too willing to make a deal, any deal, no matter how bad that might be. that's the danger. and there's a feeling out there these days in terms of the body language and the posture of the republican leadership, that's the direction they are headed. they look like they are atrade. they look like they want to deal and if they don't get one, the world is going to come crashing down on them. that's the mind-set that needs to change. so if boehner and compan

within the budget plan to be included in the fiscal cliff talks. >> can you also look in the camera and say dear democrats, both for and include some of the spending cuts in this deal to avoid the fiscal cliff. because that's not what they're doing right now. should they include this? >> yes, and i know that democrats except that this has to be a balanced package that includes revenues and cuts and spending cuts. >> yet months ago, that ws voted down 99 to zero. earlier this week, the number two democrat in the senate, dick durbin, insisted maj spending cuts and entitlement reform will not be part of these talks. nancy pelosi has been noncommittal about whether cuts will be in the deal. still, they are trying to breathe into the talks with vice present biden shopping avenue costco in washington, picking up a big-screen tv and an apple pie and insisting he is optimistic of the deal. >> i am. all these folks in the store. they are ing to make a difference. reporter: a phone call last night betwee speaker boehner and the president was very curt. it signaled that the president is flexible on taxes by not being specific on the new rates. >> i will say that there can be no

for 24 hours with prevacid24hr. >>> welcome back. the fight over the fiscal cliff heating up with both parties accusing the other of failing to offer substantial plans. >> to this point, that's right. without a deal, automatic spending cuts and higher taxes will kick in january 1st. that's something our next guest wants to avoid. we welcome back democratic congressman charlie rangel of new york. good to see you. welcome back. >> good to be back. >> we're at that awkward part of the negotiating process where nobody wants to be the first to step up, especially on the spending side. so do you want to be that person? can you give us some sense of where the democratic side would want to make those cuts in entitlements to get us closer to a deal? >> how in the world would you talk about cutting spending before you find out how much you have to spend? isn't this all about a revenue shortfall? the first thing we should do is find out, how much money can reraise, what is the gap, and what we can't do in terms of raising revenue we go to the cuts part. >> that's a great point. so let's do that. apparently if you raise taxes on the highest earners, that'll get you $31 billion. if you eliminate all loopholes and exempt

fiscal cliff which is frankly not nearly as big a deal as the washington media says it is, and confronting head on that we are not going to continue this pattern of deficit spending is far better for them than to raise taxes, slow the economy, and grow government. if you give the democrats -- the president's budget proposal said give me higher taxes so i can spend even more. >> sean: as i said, the big disappointment to me today was kind of shocking to hear that speaker boehner adopted the language of the president as it relates to class warfare. yeah, we're raising money on the rich. i don't care if you say revenues or tax rates, it's still the same thing. i was a little surprised that conservative tea party members are now being pulled out of different committees as a kind of punishment because they didn't go along with the leadership. so i'm saying what are they standing for? >> i think that's a very dangerous game to play. i think that the country believes that somebody ought to stand up for smaller government, somebody ought to stand up for lower taxes, more economic growt

the scenes for a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff. publicly the two sides still sounded miles apart after talking to president obama last night for 15 minutes and meeting with secretary geithner for more than half an hour. john boehner said the two sides have made no progress on a deal. he wants to see more spending cuts from the democrats, but the democrats punch back and said it is republicans who aren't making any serious offer on more tax revenues. >> so right now all eyes on the white house. the country does not need a victory lap, it needs leadership. tell the american people with spending cuts they are willing to make. >> if it happened, it will be under the leadership of the house. for a balanced agreement, we need republicans to come forward with something. >> speaker john boehner said this is a moment for adult leadership, a stab at the president there. melissa: my goodness. i understand mitt romney is coming to the white house for that lunch. i don't know, what is everybody expect to come from that? >> the president said the president wanted to talk to governor romney abo

you want to go off the fiscal cliff? >> bob: a lot of people will get hurt. i don't care if the 2% will get hurt. >> greg: you hate rich people. >> bob: i don't hate them. they're all right. they give money to philharmonic. >> greg: without rich peopl people, there would be no government. >> bob: a deal is worked out as we speak. there will be a deal and include some increase. maybe not the entire for the upper income people. there will be adjustment to social security. >> eric: we'll continue to rack up $1 trillion. guess what our kids will be stuck with? trillions and trillions of debt. additional debt. >> dana: i am worried about the future when it comes to that. let me tell you. i don't think is about making the country better for our kids. i don't think it's been true for the last 25 years. i think that the -- >> greg: you hate kids, though. >> dana: an issue that nobody talks about that the president refuses to deal with is entitlement spending. there are ways to preserve entitlement spending for future generation but no congress since carter has been able to do it. someone

republicans have to deal with as they think about the politics and the optics of how the fiscal cliff gets resolved. in the end, they have got not much. they can say they have a mandate so it's equal, but it really isn't and they know that. >> we seem to know as much about mitt romney's taxes as we do about the loopholes republicans are willing to close in this. they can't offer any specifics. is this a turnoff for the people? >> in fairness we have to recognize that there's been a lack of specifics on both sides here. they are negotiating in public. you notice that that's how this stuff is coming out. it's not phone calls between the two sides or closed-door meetings. we don't know what spending democrats would cut and we haven't even begun the entitlements discussion, which the president is theoretically open to. so there's a lot that still needs to happen. i mean for you and me and normal people, three weeks away may seem like a short time, but there's a feeling that this has barely even begun. >> here's senator bob corker and claire mccaskill. here it is. >> i have just laid out in ver